The average Christians’ concept of God has a lot to do with their understanding of what happens when a person dies. Many see death as a time of entering into the very presence of God, or into eternally burning hell-fire. These see it as a regretful but necessary concept in the light of many passages of Scripture which, they say, give undoubted support of this doctrine. C S Lewis had this to say on the subject: “There is no doctrine which I would more willingly remove from Christianity than this, if it lay in my power. But it has the full support of Scripture and, specially, of our Lord’s own words; it has always been held by Christendom; and it has the support of reason.” (Lewis 1940, p.106) Following are some of the passages of Scripture that are believed to be proof of this concept:
Isa.14:9-11 “Sheol from beneath is excited over you to meet you when you come; It arouses for you the spirits of the dead, all the leaders of the earth; It raises all the kings of the nations from their thrones.They will all respond and say to you, ‘Even you have been made weak as we, You have become like us. ‘Your pomp and the music of your harps have been brought down to Sheol; Maggots are spread out as your bed beneath you, and worms are your covering.’ This passage of Scripture is initially a “taunt against the king of Babylon.” (vs.4) To what extent it is allegorical is to be decided by the context. The following verses (12-14) have always been accepted as referring to Lucifer and the reasons he became, Satan, the god of this world. As with all Scripture, passages have to be read in their context to see what the Writer is intending to convey. By building doctrines and belief systems on individual verses taken out of context we may be doing violence to the original intent.
Matt.17:1-9 The Transfiguration 1 Six days later, Jesus took with him Peter and James and his brother John and led them up a high mountain, by themselves. 2 And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became dazzling white. 3 Suddenly there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him. 4 Then Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if you wish, I will make three dwellings here, one for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” 5 While he was still speaking, suddenly a bright cloud overshadowed them, and from the cloud a voice said, “This is my Son, the Beloved; with him I am well pleased; listen to him!” 6 When the disciples heard this, they fell to the ground and were overcome by fear. 7 But Jesus came and touched them, saying, “Get up and do not be afraid.” 8 And when they looked up, they saw no one except Jesus himself alone.This passage is used to show that the saints must go straight to heaven when they die. It is interesting that it was both Moses and Elijah who appear on the Mount of Transfiguration. Both of these men are mentioned specifically in Scripture as having been taken to heaven. Moses was ‘resurrected’ (Deut 34:5-7; Jude 9) Elijah was ‘translated’ in a fiery chariot. (2 Kings 2:11) These two men were ‘types’ of all the saved who live upon this earth. Many will experience death and the resurrection while others will experience ‘translation’ without seeing death. (1 Thess.4:13-17)
Matt.22:32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is God not of the dead, but of the living.It’s important to note that this statement was addressed to the Saducees, a group who maintained that there was no resurrection of the dead. (vs.23) Jesus, in addressing these people, was associating the “living” Abraham with the resurrection – yet future. We always need to remember that there is no ‘past’, ‘present’ or ‘future’ with God. He is the God of eternity. When God looks upon his ‘sleeping’ saints he sees them as very much alive. Just as when we look upon a sleeping child, our hearts go out to them in love and protection. They are very much alive even though unconscious in blissful sleep. With God there is always the ‘reality’ of omniscience. His thoughts are infinitely above ours. In this sense, of course God can say, “He is God not of the dead, but of the living.”
Mark 9:43-48 43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life maimed than to have two hands and to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. 45 And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame than to have two feet and to be thrown into hell. 47 And if your eye causes you to stumble, tear it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye thanto have two eyes and to be thrown into hell, 48 where their worm never dies, and the fire is never quenched.Luke 16: 22-24 22 The poor man died and was carried away by theangels to be with Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was being tormented, he looked up and saw Abraham far away with Lazarus by his side. 24 He called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in agony in these flames.’The preceding passages are obviously allegorical and were told to teach important lessons of how we should live our lives. To try and make them out to be literal is quite disturbing. Christians are not being told here to maim themselves. Nor are they being told that heaven is a place of seeing people in torment. Such notions should be abhorrent to us. Jesus is saying to us here, “I cannot stress enough to you all the importance of living your life here on this earth as if you were in the very presence of God, for your actions have eternal consequences”.
2 Cor.5:6-8 6 So we are always confident; even though we know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord — 7 for we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 Yes, we do have confidence, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.Phil.1:23 I am hard pressed between the two: my desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better;These are simple statements of fact, no doubt experienced by all Christians at different times. Like a lost child saying, ‘I wish I were home with my mummy and daddy’. To make a verse like this into a theological treatise on the ‘immortality of the soul’ is stretching the bounds of credibility. Paul, in these passages is simply going through the same experience as David who said, “O that I had wings like a dove! I would fly away and be at rest…” Ps.55:6 Paul is not giving a study here on the state of man in death. He is, as a man, simply revealing the deep longings of his heart. The Bible writers were not automatons. They were real people with feeling, weaknesses and passions just like you and I. The Bible is a wonderful blending of the human and the divine.
Rev.6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slaughtered for the word of God and for the testimony they had given;This is an interesting verse. The context shows that it is talking of a time of great turbulence in the prophetic time-clock. The very next seal opened (vs. 12-17) tells of the actual second coming of Christ. The significance of these “souls under the altar”, is more far reaching than an endorsement of a teaching on what happens when a person dies. It is preparing us to understand the enormous consequences of the Second Coming when all the dead in Christ will arise from the graves. For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call and with the sound of God’s trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 1 Thess. 4:16 These “souls under the altar” will arise from the graves on the basis of the work of grace that has been performed for them on the altar of the heavenly sanctuary.
And of course there is the well known verse where Jesus talks to the thief on the cross: Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.” Luke 23:43 NIVThe placement of the comma before “today” is very important in determining the meaning of this text. If the comma is placed after “today” it completely alters the meaning of the text. “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise.” It is common knowledge that punctuation, including commas, was introduced into the biblical manuscripts centuries after the books were completed. Therefore, commas are not authoritative. It is pointed out by Bible scholars that Jesus often emphasized certain statements by beginning with, “I tell you the truth” (“Verily I say unto thee” in the KJV). He is said to have done this 76 times in the New Testament. Why would he add the word “today” in this instance? We are treading on sacred ground here. That day, “today”, surely stands out as the supreme demonstration of the love and sacrifice of the all powerful God of all Creation. Jesus is indeed saying, “Truly I tell you today….”, today when the angels themselves hide their faces in despair and horror, today when the Creator of the universe hangs helplessly between 2 criminals, today when even the Father is hiding His face from His beloved Son. This is indeed a day that will never be repeated in the annals of eternity. If, as one commentator has glibly said, “It would be strange indeed if, in this one instance, Jesus departed from His normal way of making His signature statement by adding the word today….” The day that our Creator died upon the cross of Calvary can hardly be described as, “this one instance”. Jesus is indeed saying, “Truly I tell you today (at such a time as this when all appears hopelessly lost) you will be with me in paradise.The question is, how far will we go in adjusting Scripture to meet our pre-conceived ideas of truth. When the protestant reformation began and the King James version of the Bible was produced to give, “such a blow unto that man of sin, as will not be healed,” (written in the preface of all King James Bibles), the light of God’s truth shone brightly after centuries of the darkness of Romanism. Even yet, some of those dark concepts have flowed through to us even today. Martin Luther, the father of the reformation, recognized this and is quoted in this article.
Taken at face value these ‘proof’ texts of Scripture could be seen as endorsing the concept of the ‘immortality of the soul’. We could be excused for thinking, ‘no doubt there is a hell-fire, a place of abode forever for the wicked.’ Let’s be honest here. Of course the Bible talks of a time of fearful judgement and a lake of fire. But is this lake of fire ‘eternal’ in its duration or in its consequences? Could we be confusing the term ‘judgement’ with the concept of ongoing ‘judging’? Certainly judgement is eternal in its consequences. God who is omniscient will be forever aware of its reality. Could it be that our Heavenly Father will need the comfort and presence of His redeemed for the pain He has suffered from His eternal battle with evil. This is the point, the judgement is eternal, not the judging. God has given us a wonderful verse of Scripture hidden in one of the minor books of the Old Testament; “What do ye imagine against the Lord? He will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.” Nahum 1:9 This verse should be read with like verses: “for the Lamb at the centre of the throne will be their shepherd, and he will guide them to springs of the water of life, and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.” Rev. 7:17Surely these verses reveal to us God’s true character. God will wipe away our tears but who will wipe away His? If we His people have suffered in this life, how much more, infinitely more, has He suffered with His acute awareness of every act of cruelty and brutality that has ever occurred.His true character is there in Scripture for all to see if we are prepared to dig earnestly for it with open, honest hearts.We need to remember that spiritual things are “spiritually discerned” I Cor.2:14 Sometimes our ‘natural’, ‘reasoning’ powers take over and we use our human logic to arrive at incorrect conclusions.Martin Luther, a man led by the Spirit in the 16th century, had this to say on this doctrine. Because he was led by the Spirit he was not afraid to be in contention with the popular church of his day. It’s interesting to take note of what Luther had to say about the papal teaching on this doctrine.
Then, on October 31, 1517, Luther posted his famous Theses on the church door in Wittenberg. In his 1520 published Defence of 41 of his propositions, Luther cited the pope’s immortality declaration, as among “those monstrous opinions to be found in the Roman dunghill of decretals” (proposition 27)Sixteenth Century MARTIN LUTHER (1493-1546), German Reformer and Bible translator‘The immediate cause of Luther’s stand on the sleep of the soul was the issue of purgatory, with its postulate of the conscious torment of anguished souls. While Luther is not always consistent, the predominant note running all through his writings is that souls sleep in peace, without consciousness or pain. The Christian dead are not aware of anything—see not, feel not, understand not, and are not conscious of passing events. Luther held and periodically stated that in the sleep of death, as in normal physical sleep, there is complete unconsciousness and unawareness of the condition of death or the passage of time.† Death is a deep, sound, sweet sleep.‡ And the dead will remain asleep.Martin Luther is on safe ground when he makes statements like this. He is in total agreement with Jesus Himself who refers to death as a sleep. When her brother had died, Martha said to Jesus, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.” Jn.11:24 Of that same event Jesus said,“Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I am going there to awaken him.” 12 The disciples said to him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will be all right.” 13 Jesus, however, had been speaking about his death, but they thought that he was referring merely to sleep. Jn.11:11-13 One can’t get much plainer language than this about what happens when a person dies.To attribute immortality to the soul of every person born seems to be a wresting of Scripture which clearly says: In the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus……. who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords. 16 It is he alone who has immortality…….1Tim.6:13-16From these verses it is quite plain that God, who alone has immortality, gives life to all creation. It doesn’t say that man has inherent immortality. It is simply saying that all life derives from God. It is not inherent to man. The Bible never says that man has an immortal soul. It says clearly in the first book, the book of foundations, And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Gen.2:7 KJV Notice it says here that man ‘became’ a living soul. It certainly doesn’t say that he was given an immortal soul that goes on living after death in either heaven or hell. As Martin Luther rightly said, “† Death is a deep, sound, sweet sleep.‡ And the dead will remain asleep” Scripture is in agreement with this. In the book of Job we read the following. (This book is reputed by many to be the oldest in the Bible. And we find that, on this subject, it is consistent with the rest of Scripture, right through to the New Testament.)
Job 14:12-15 so mortals lie down and do not rise again; until the heavens are no more, they will not awake or be roused out of their sleep. O that you would hide me in Sheol, that you would conceal me until your wrath is past, that you would appoint me a set time, and remember me!If mortals die, will they live again? All the days of my service I would wait until my release should come. You would call, and I would answer you; you would long for the work of your hands.
We underestimate the power of God if we believe that God cannot raise the dead. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. 1 Thess. 4:16 KJV
One very important principle to remember when we read these Scriptures or indeed all Scripture, is this. The Bible is rightly called The Word of God. God is eternal. He doesn’t experience time as we know it. For Him there is no ‘yesterday’ or ‘tomorrow’ as with us. But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like one day. 2 Pet.3:8 With God there is no mystery about tomorrow as there is with us. When we read the Bible we’re treading on sacred ground. It’s presumptuous of us to read from a human, rational viewpoint. It’s not without good reason that the Bible speaks of Jesus, the same yesterday and today and forever. Heb.13;8 Is it then possible to read Scripture with an eternal comprehension? Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus… Phil. 2:5 This is the privilege of all Christians: to read Scripture with spiritual understanding and not the surface understanding of reason alone. Like the apostle Paul we would be quite happy to depart this life and to be with Christ. For the believer there is no fear of what the future holds. There is a quiet confidence that God will bring every good thing to fruition ‘in his time’.
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For those who would like to study this subject further .
I am a lay person, however the truth about this teaching is presented by others who have far greater ‘credentials’ than me. The following presentations illustrate this.
Psalm 18:35 KJV Thou hast also given me the shield of thy salvation: and thy right hand hath holden me up, and thy gentleness hath made me great.
Isaiah 30:15 KJV – ……..In returning and rest shall ye be saved; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength…..
A statement by Ellen White
”There’s no excuse for anyone taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for years is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. If the pillars of our faith will not stand investigation, it’s time we knew it.” Counsels to Writers and Editors p.35
Charles Spurgeon said in 1861 “The circumstance which attended Job’s restoration is that to which I invite your particular attention. “The Lord turned again the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends.” Intercessory prayer was the omen of his returning greatness. It was the bow in the cloud, the dove bearing the olive branch, the voice of the turtle announcing the coming summer. When his soul began to expand itself in holy and loving prayer for his erring brethren, then the heart of God showed itself to him by returning to him his prosperity without, and cheering his soul within. Brethren, it is not fetching a laborious compass, when from such a text as this I address you upon the subject of prayer for others. Let us learn today to imitate the example of Job, and pray for our friends, and peradventure if we have been in trouble, our captivity shall be turned.”
Oswald Chambers wrote on June 17th 1909 from Cincinnati :
“I believe more and more that this is His way—intercessory prayer, this is the way He makes us broken bread and poured out wine for other people.”
It is a part of God's plan to grant us, in answer to the PRAYER of faith, that which he would not bestow, did we not thus ask. E G White
God is prepared to do, in answer to our prayers many things He would not otherwise do. This is one of the laws He has ordained. It's purpose is to make us realize our dependence upon Him for every blessing. This sense of dependancy is in itself a tremendous blessing, and it saves us from self-confidence, the source of so much evil. Undoubtedly, even apart from the prayers of many, God works upon the hearts of unbelievers, but it is just as sure that He is prepared to do something outside the ordinary and beyond the usual in response to a believer's prayer. Dr. Des Ford
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A light between two oceans
That's what this website could be considered to be. A little flickering light between the vast oceans of Protestantism and Seventh-day Adventism . Trying to harmonize what is true and important in both.
Psalm 43:3 KJV
O send out thy light and thy truth: let them lead me; let them bring me unto thy holy hill, and to thy tabernacles.
We are told not to despise the day of small things.
Zechariah 4:10 KJV - For who hath despised the day of small things?
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Rom.8:2 NRSV
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
Eccl.3:11 RSV
He has made everything beautiful in its time; also he has put eternity into man's mind, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end.
Isa.30:15 RSV
"In returning and rest you shall be saved;
in quietness and in trust shall be your strength."
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